Jon Scott Stevens wrote:
>> That, plus the fact that the URL contains the string ".jsp". That is
>> a big no-no for anything that is supposed to be a permanent "archival"
>> URL. It's ugly and it ties you to a particular technology.
>
> I disagree.
>
> #1. SubEtha Mail isn't the type of application to get ported to other
> languages.
You mean you can only write mailing list managers in JSP?
The issue is porting the data, not the application. I'm sure
you're not in favor of product tie-in using closed data formats?
>> RESTful means the URL refers to an object (e.g. a mail message)
>> in a logical view, not what kind of language the server is
>> implemented in!
>
> Somehow it's ok that Mailman's url's end in .html? How is that any
> different than .jsp?
I didn't say that. Ending in .html is also discouraged, because in the
future it might make sense to use a different format. However, .jsp
is worse than .html, since .html is at least the *data* that is sent
to the browser, while .jsp is just the language the server is
implemented in, and has nothing to do with the actual data. .html
is formatted "concrete" data, rather than an abstract "RESTful"
location, which is why .html should be avoided, but at least it is data.
And there is one argument for using .html extensions: a static
copy of an archive or can be saved to a disk and read with a file: URL.
This article is useful, and includes various links:
http://www.port80software.com/support/articles/nextgenerationurls
>> Jon Scott Stevens wrote:
>> A message permalink might be: http://hostname/lists/list-name/NNNN
>>
>> One also wants a permalink for a thread/conversation. (Gmane has
>> that.) This should allow easy switching between a blog/forum view,
>> and a more mail archive browsing view.
>
> +1 That's a good idea. We don't currently have a direct link to the
> thread itself. Only to the first message in the thread. But then
> again, what's the difference?
A URL for a message should just that message, along with various
navigation links.
A URL for a thread shows links to all the messages in the thread.
It may optionally inline or summarize the message content in a
blob/forum style. At least conceptually: for a long thread, one
may need multiple pages, but the primary nagivation buttons are
for moving within that thread.
>>> I don't like their regular message reading interface with frames.
>> Gag.
>>
>> It's ugly but quite functional.
>
> I disagree. It doesn't provide a nice view for reading the entire
> thread.
A two-pane view is nice for reading a thread, since you can see
the context while your reading and message - and skip messages
from known flamers.
> Actually, you are still flipping because there are still two panes. I
> prefer to read a message, get to the bottom of it and then click next
> message in thread.
That's fine if you want to read *every* message in a thread. But what
if you only want to read the message from people who usually write
something interesting?
Plus when done with a thread, try navigating all the way back again
to the see if there are any more threads that look interesting. Ouch!
In your mail reader, don't you prefer a two-pane view to a one-pane
view? I certainly do. Using squirrelmail (for example) is tedious
because it only has a single pane view.
>> Using AJAX (when available) rather than frames would be probably be
>> an improvement.
>
> What about a gmail style interface?
Nothing wrong with that - the extra navigation buttons at the bottom are
an improvement over mailman. However, a two-pane view is even nicer.
--
--Per Bothner
per@bothner.com http://per.bothner.com/
